Translation Desk 110 |
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Topic: Translation Desk 110
Hello again, I come bearing translation requests.
I've tried some of my own translations, but they are an embarassing mess, so I thought I'd come back. If you recall, I'm a fan of the books and a player of Lord of the Rings Online. I need help with several things. First, I need a name for a Ranger of Ithilien, that I'd like to have been based on a Sindarin translation of "Wayfinder" or "Pathfinder". Radamir is as close as I could get with my limited knowledge. Could you tell me if that is a reasonable construction? The second, and far more important issue, if the name for our group of elves and men. I've never settled on anything, because nothing I've constructed has that special ring to it that screams "keeper". Here again, is the concept of the group (Reposted from Translation Desk 109 Page 10) As for the name of the group of elves and men, I'm looking for something that fits with the concept... which is...So... I'm looking for something like the following.... Either a descriptive name like - Brothers or Brotherhood of the Eternal Battle - The Eternal Watch(ers) - The Guardians of Middle-earth - The Oath-takers or Oathbound Or something Abstractly descriptive like - The Enduring Shield - The Stars of the Twilight - The Eternal Oath Suggestions welcome, and translations requested! Thanks so much, this site and it's people are truly amazing. |
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As a ranger name you might possibly use Padathir, an early idea for the Elvish name of "Trotter" (later Aragorn), since it may consist of the stems "walk" and "watch, guard" in one way or another.
As for the group my ideas so far are: • Uidirith - Everguard • Tirn Ennorath - Guards of Middle-earth • Gwaedh Uireb - Eternal Oath • Thand Bronadui - Enduring Shield (All these are Sindarin.) |
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Lothenon, you are the kind of great that can't be done justice with simple words!!! Since I'm incapable of using complex ones, you will have to settle for my thanks!
I really like Uidririth, mainly because Uidririthrim has that sort of epic, yet secretive feel I was looking for. "I suspect she one of the uidirithrim.." I do have a question of pronunciation, pareticulartly the first syllable. Is it ew - ee as in Suey, or ew - ih as in Fluid? Or is it something else entirely. I like Tirn Ennorath as well, and that might end up being a contender, and while Gwaedh Uireb and Thand Bronadui are great concepts, I think that maybe they are lack the same sort of uniqueness of Uidirith when converted to Sindarin. That's really awesome, Thanks so much. I'll wait to hear a few more suggestions till I commit, but Uidirith, or The Uidirithrim is my number 1 choice so far. Also, thanks for Padathir, I think that sounds really nice. Was Radamir way off? |
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Wow, no big deal, you're very welcome :)
On most occasions you wrote Uidririth, with one r too much (it is Ui-dirith, I believe you know the elements from Uilos, 'Everwhite' and (Minas) Tirith, '(Tower of) Guard'). Just so you don't get it wrong. I'm afraid the Elvish ui sound is not found in English. It's basically the vowel of "put" and that of "machine" in one syllable. It's like saying "coin", but replacing the o by mentioned u. In my Pronunciation Guide you will find an audio file of me saying "uilos, suil". The i's in dirith(rim) all have the exactly same quality (as in "machine" but short as in "fit"). The stress is on ui in 'Uidirith' and on rith in 'Uidirithrim'. As for Radamir: In fact I simply don't understand of which elements it consists. If I was asked to translate it I'd say it means "Path-jewel", though I'm not quite certain what Tolkien's final say on the element -mir was (in Fara-, Boromir. I guess you based it on these names?). |
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My Extra R was really the result of high resolution + laptop keyboards. ;) Uidirithrim or Uidirith is how I understood it. I'll play closer attention when it counts in the game, I assure you! While I was not familiar with Ui before, I was certainly familiar with Tir/Tirn/Tirith etc.
I'm excited about your Punctuation guide, and checking it out now. You are absolutely correct that I based Radamir on Faramir and Boromir. I assumed Faramir meant Hunter and Boromir meant something like "Dependable Son". I thought Mir was less a direct Sindarin element and more like a personification suffix sort of thing used in Gondor. Thanks again for your help, and your rapid response. |
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>You are absolutely correct that I based Radamir on Faramir
>and Boromir. I assumed Faramir meant Hunter and Boromir >meant something like "Dependable Son". I thought Mir was >less a direct Sindarin element and more like a >personification suffix sort of thing used in Gondor. The suffix -mir means 'jewel', at least according to one known interpretation (Tolkien might have rethought it as he did with other names). If you want to use a personal suffix with RAT- or rada-, the possibilities are *Radron, *Rador, *Radon. It is also possible to append -hir, -gon 'lord' as in several other Mannish/Gondorian names, hence *Radahir, *Radagon. |
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I'm no expert, but I would suggest:
thand (adj) for true + pedel |
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By that you mean to say "true speaking," Berendor? I myself don't have PE17 yet, but from reading the thread about it on Mellyn Lammath, I (based on Aran's post on page 5) think that one could suggest pedel for an aorist participle, pedol for a strictly continuative one, ped as generally speaking, and pedweg (not a participle) as actively speaking. However, I'm not sure what mutation would occur with -nd + p-. A vowel probably occured historically after thand, so lenition is possible, but assimilation into -mb- might also be possible.
I'm not sure at all; I can't think of any known examples for this cluster.
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I don't believe we find mere stem adjectives/participles (so to say) like *ped. What Aran does give in the place you mention is ugar as opposed to úgarol but it still is a modified (affixed) adjective. We do find pen-bed ('not pronouncable' PE17:145) but seeing other modified adjectives dirbedui ('difficult to pronounce' PE17:154), gorbedui ('*hard to pronounce, only to be said with horror' PE17:154) and úbedui ('not fit to say' PE17:144) I find it more likely that *pedui (with the frequent and somewhat unspecified analoguous suffix -ui mentioned in Rivers(?)) covers the more basic meanings 'speaking, saying, pronouncing'. |
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Well, I'm attempting to learn Sindarin, but in the meantime I have a question. Two, actually, but only one about Sindarin.
I'd like to translate 'Gray star' and 'Wolf shadow' into names... if someone could help with that, that would be great. Also, does anyone here know anything about Harad names? Any resources on anything known about the Harad people/language/culture would be helpful, but as you guys are language peoples, I'm hoping you have something on the language. |
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Mithgil would be my suggestion for a name 'Grey-star' (while simply 'grey star' would rather be gîl vithren). As for 'shadow' you would have to specify since we have several words covering the English translation:
• gwath 'shade, shadow, dim light' • morchant 'shadow (of objects, cast by light), lit. "dark shape"' • dúath, dúwath 'darkness, shadow, nightshade' (There are also dae 'shadow' and lum 'shade' but they might possibly be (externally) outdated.) Tolkien provided very little linguistic material for peoples that do not have great rolls in his legendarium or serve on the 'wrong side', so to say. I don't believe we know much more than the terms mûmak 'elephant', Inkânush (a name of Gandalf) and the region name Khand, and I don't even think that these words necessarily come from the same language (practically we are talking about Arabia and all of Africa, so there is a LOT of room for altogether different languages). The term Harad is in fact Sindarin and means nothing but 'South' (Haradrim translating as 'South-people'). |
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So if I looked up some African type languages, I'd pretty much have free reign in the terms of creating a Harad name? Sorry for the bother, just trying to clarify.
As for the name- duath, duwath or gwath or dae would work- if you could work out something with one of those, that would be great. Thanks! Mithgil it shall be...
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Hi, everybody!
I'm just wondering...is there any kind of translating program for sindarin, or quenya, somewhere online? I mean, I know that the language isn't all done, that is hasn't got words for everything, but the grammar is all done, right? Or, almost at the least... Well, to come to some sort of point here - I've come across some online translators for drow (DON'T THROW ROTTEN FRUIT AT ME!) and I thought that it maybe exists some for the elvish languages too. If not - isn't tehre ANY plans to complete Tolkiens languages some day, or is that kinda "taboo" touching his baby?
Lemme know! |
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Celebhen, I just want to let you know that I'm sorry it's taken this long to reply — I have to leave the house now, but when I get back in a few hours I will write up the answer to your post as I intended, and delete this one.
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Celebhen, I'll let Tyrhael address the matter of the Elvish languages, but I will say that since there hasn't been a particularly effective computer translator invented yet, I doubt it will happen for the Elvish languages. While you can get online dictionaries which are pretty good at doing what book dictionaries do- that is, giving rough equivalents for most words and phrases- and some of the better ones can even manage syntax to a certain extent, language is rather too complicated, especially on the semantic level, for any computer to really be able to do a good job of actually translating and retaining the original sense and meaning.
Frankly, I think I'd be scared of any computer that could manage that.
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Hi everyone,
this is my first post. i have been trying to get to grips with Elvish but it is really difficult for me!!! i am a huge lord of the rings fan and am wanting to get an elvish tattoo but i cant seem to be able to translate these two phrases, please, please, please can someone help me!
"not all those who wander are lost"
"what we have to decide is what to do with the time given to us"
i would like it in tengwar.
Thank you
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Excuse me, I need some more help translating English to Dwarven, please.
*Smiles.*
I need the actual ruins if that is even possible, but I need somewhere down the line that means thus:
- The Hidden Key Possesses Defense
- The Key To A Secret Fortress
Somewhere down the line of those two meanings if you can, but if you can't then I'll understand. I really hope someone can help me, please.
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Greetings again, I was wondering if someone could translate the following into both Sind. and Tengwar for me please.
Courage, Truth, Honor
If there isn't an exact translation for one of them something similar is alright- just tell me what it actually is. Thanks.
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Tyr: You gave me a translation a long time back of a line from the Beatles song The End. I remeber it but I need to see where the accent marks(and which ones) go in the text. The phrase was. "Ar metasse i melme ya tuvil, iminqua i melme ya caril na" could you just remind me how the accents go? Thanks!
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I was wondering if anybody could tell me how accurate the language is on this site?
It would be much appreciated if anybody could have a brief look http://www.nevrast.net/dictionary.html |
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It is not about where you go in life, it is about who is by your side that makes it all worthwhile.
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The sections Etymology, Grammar and Elvish Dictionary on this site are teeming with gross mistakes. By the way, of what avail is a dictionary where two different languages are mixed up ?Etymology |
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Quick question... Translating "Tale of the Uidirith" or "Song of the Uidirith" Would that be "Narn en-Uidirith"? Is that correct? Thanks! |
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i need some help. I would love for someone to be able to translate in tengwar the phrase " my heart my soul". i have been trying for ages but with no luck. Hope you can help.
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I've done some researching but don't feel completely satisfied with the efforts we've turned up so far so I thought to double check.
Sindarin
Path-finder: Faradrim o Rad: hunters of the path
Correct? Path finder(s) is what I'm after, but after some research it looks almost as if Rad is itself find, and Faradrim o Rad seemed repetitive if that was the case.
Help me linguistic-one kenobi, you're my only hope!
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Ooh can someone please help?
Ages ago I had a name translated and the result was Turtirithon. I cant remember if it is sindarin or quenya. Its a male name, but for the life of me I cant recall what it means, and I know I picked it because of its meaning, so help please? |
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I guess it is supposed to be Sindarin (Quenya does not normally have th), but the r in the prefix Tur- would make the following t- turn to th-, thus rather Turthirithon, phonologically speaking.
As to the meaning: Tirith means 'guard', so tirithon appears to be meant as 'guardian' (though personally I doubt such a derivation), while tur- refers to mastery or control in way way or another (cf. taur, 'king' or tortha-, 'to control, wield'). |
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Thanks Lothenon!
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Lothenon, could you take a peek at the recent post of mine above regarding the uidirith name you helped me with?
Thank you kindly! |
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I would say so, yes. But be aware that narn is not just any tale but a specific kind of tale that is written in verse (but is not sung). So I myself made a mistake as I called my North-Sindarin poem a narn, since it is not written in verse :) A specifically sung composition would rather be a lind, while as a more general term glîr appears to be the best choice. But this is just my interpretation, maybe there are some other oppinions? Oh, and you would not need a genitive article, many names mark genitive by the word order (thus Glîr Uidirith). But Tolkien was by no means consistent and so often used the article (e.g. Narn e·Dinúviel), and sometimes did not (e.g. Narn i-Chîn Húrin, i being the article "the", not a genitive marker). |
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There he [Beren] made a song for Beleg, and he named it Laer Cú Beleg, the Song of the Great Bow, singing it aloud heedless of peril. (Silm) So I'd use laer for a song. |
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Hi again,
I was wondering if someone could tell me if these Tengwar translations are correct? The font in my Microsoft Word is called "Tengwar Annatar" if that helps any.
jeGÊ = life 9q^Ê = hope 173J = truth 17iU1 = trust ehE3 = faith q72%É = pride jr^É = love jiU1 = lust 1EÊ = pain jlT+ = hate xhUj1 = lies jyEv = guilt z7`Û = laugh jr%É = cry 2lT = live die = die |
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Blue Goblin, on my computer your font is just showing up as various normal characters. 'Life', for instance, is 'jeGÊ'. When Tyr (the Moderator for this forum) posts in Tengwar it usually renders fine, so I'm not sure what the problem is. Maybe try another font?
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Hi, I was wondering if someone could translate my name Sean, which means "God is gracious", into Elvish.
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Apologies to all for responding so late! I will try to be more prompt in the future.
Dûntasare, I'm afraid we don't know enough of the Dwarven language to be able to translate either of those phrases — we know "fortress" (gathol), but none of the other words needed for translating your request are attested. Sirannon, I find this translation request somewhat familiar (déjà vu?), and I remember that the last time (years ago) I attempted to translate that into Sindarin, I suggested huor for "courage" based on *Khō-gorē "'heart-vigour,' courage"(KHŌ Etymologies), but Aelindis (I think it was her) pointed out that the derivatives Q Huore and N Huor are both proper names and probably shouldn't be used as regular nouns. I would instead suggest N bereth "valour" based on BER- "valiant" with derivatives possessing the meanings of "bold, brave." However, it is debatable whether that word survived into Sindarin ... As for "truth" and "honor," I'm afraid I don't know any way to translate either word into Sindarin. Taurëllo Hyanda, based on information published since the time I gave you that translation, I would update it to Ar mettassë i melmë ya camilyë, imya i melmë ya carilyë ná. The dots over the E's are optional, and camilye/carilye can be shortened as camil/caril. That leaves the only accent as the acute accent on A with ná. pandroid, I would transcribe "my heart my soul" into the tengwar as one of two ways (both shown below), according to what Lothenon suggested in a following post: ![]() Blue Goblin and Lord of the Rings: Well, I always write the tengwar in PhotoShop and then save it as an image and upload it to Photobucket — I haven't tried, say, writing in Word in a tengwar font and copy-pasting it into the reply box. Let's see if this works: wj~C I will check the accuracy of your tengwar transcriptions a little later. tolkfan, welcome to the Plaza! One could translate "gracious" as Quenya faila "fair-minded, just, generous" or raina "smiling, gracious, sweet-faced," which would yield -failo / -failon and -raino / -rainon. The tricky part is translating "God." Roman Rausch notes in his Systematic approach to Elvish name translations that the name 'Eru' was rarely uttered, and that therefore the plethora of Elvish names using the element Eru to translate "God" would be doubtful — it would be better to use Vala. Thus Quenya names Valafailo / Valafailon or Valaraino / Valarainon could be constructed — perhaps a Sindarin construction Balafael could be made as well. <Lang Mod edit: Fixed tengwar in accordance with Lothenon's suggestion> |
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> Aelindis (I think it was her) pointed out that the derivatives Q Huore and N Huor are both proper names and probably shouldn't be used as regular nouns.
Though I may have written that (years ago), I would like to state now that I would not rule out a word simply for the reason that it is also a proper name, cf. beren.
By the way, in PE17 S bereth has the meanings "supreme, sublime, queen; spouse; queen (as spouse of a King"). So it might be ambiguos without context, just like N caun "valour", from KAN- (Etym:362).
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@Tyr / pandroid:
When the vowels are placed on the following consonant I do not see a reason, why in "heart" the A should not be placed upon the R, but on a carrier ;) Furthermore you could represent the A by the c-shaped tengwa (called osse in the Etymologies), that for A in the mode of Beleriand (cf. "earth" in DTS 62). |
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Thanks, Aelindis — I hadn't thought of the Beren example. As for bereth and caun, I agree that they would be ambiguous — I honestly don't think that phrase is translatable if isolated like that; my ideas were just an attempt. Thanks for the quote from PE17 though!
Lothenon, d'oh! I indeed thought of using osse (and because of DTS 62), but putting the A on the R didn't occur to me — I typically write it with the E accent on a short carrier and the A three-dots tehta upside down under the carrier, as written by CJRT in certain volumes of HoME. Though I believe osse is used for S (or something like that) in said examples. I have fixed the transcription in my previous post accordingly. |
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Hello!
-newbie alert- *sheepish grin* Could somebody please translate "star maiden" & "rain maiden" for me? I know that girl is something like -iel, and that star and rain are el-, gil- and ross-. Putting them together is another matter entirely *g*. Thank you! |
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Welcome to the Plaza, .:riskaya:.! Not to worry; we were all newbies at one point. :) As for your two words, you didn't specify which language, so I'll give you both Quenya and Sindarin.
With 'star maiden,' star could be translated into Quenya as elen or archaic él; ñille; or tinwe. Maiden could be rendered as wende, -wen. This would yield Elenwendë, Elenwen, Elwendë, Elwen, Nilwendë, Nilwen, Tinwendë (from haplology of Tinwewendë, as found in tuilindo from tuilelindo), or Tinwen. In Sindarin you would have êl, gil, tinu, and gwend, respectively. These would yield Elwen, Gilwen, and Tinuwen, possibly with older forms *Elwend, *Gilwend, and *Tinuwend. Or, the order might be reversed, with Gwendel, Gwengil?, and Gwendinu, maybe. As for 'rain maiden,' you would do the same with wendë and gwend, but use Sindarin ross and Quenya rossë, perhaps yielding Q. Rossewendë, Roswendë. The Sindarin one is a bit tougher — if it were directly appended to the root with contact of -sw-, a form *Rochwen(d) might occur, but as that could be confused with roch + gwend "horse maiden," I'd prefer to make a compound from *rossê-w-, which might cause lenition to Roswen(d), but you should probably get a second opinion on that. |
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Hooh! I think I'm now all
Sorry, I meant Sindarin only, I forgot to type it in...
But thanks! *sheepish grin*
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>Elwen, Gilwen, and Tinuwen
I'd like Tinwen more, with the same haptology < tinwē-gwendē or directly from TIN-. Gilwen is attested, btw (WJ:231, sister of Barahir). >if it were directly appended to the root with contact of >-sw-, a form *Rochwen(d) might occur, but as that could be >confused with roch + gwend "horse maiden," I'd prefer to >make a compound from *rossê-w-, which might cause lenition >to Roswen(d), but you should probably get a second opinion >on that. Such a name seems to be quite popular. Anyway, perhaps *Rothwen? Goldogrin, at least, has a very symmetrical way of treating such combinations: medial sr, sl, sw > thr, thl, thw. But -ssV-gw- > -sw- likely works as well.
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Thanks, Aranhael! I hadn't though of Tinwen, though I thought of directly appending the 'maiden' element to ÑIL- and ROS- ...
Would haplology occur even though the first element was tinmē, or is the historical form you gave simply an archaic Sindarin form? Tinwen would still be valid directly through TIN- even if that didn't work, though.I had indeed thought of *Rothwen at first, but immediately rejected it, thinking that I needed to see attested examples of -sw- to judge which phonological change to make instead of relying on my memory, which was probably based on examples from older versions of the languages (like Etym-Noldorin) anyway. Looking at your post on page 4 of Mellyn Lammath's PE17 thread (which I refer to constantly) where you mention analogical a gwath and a historical variant a chwath (sw > chw) for "and a shadow," I thought that we might find -chw- rather than -thw-, which is why I used the -ssV-gw- > -sw- form instead. |
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>Would haplology occur even though the first element was
>tinmē, or is the historical form you gave simply an >archaic Sindarin form? Oops, I was too lazy to look it up in Etym and thought that the primitive form was *tinwē. Make Tinwen then be derived from tin 'spark, sparkle' (PE17:39) as in ithildin before getting into a phonological muddle. :-) Btw, TIN yields S. tim in MR:388 and PE17:22 (it's the same text). I always thought it's -nw > -m and maybe Northern Sindarin, but tinmē > tim does also make a lot of sense (as annûn + minas > Annúminas, Boronmíro > Boromir). So *Timwen would be another option. >Looking at your post on page 4 of Mellyn Lammath's PE17 >thread (which I refer to constantly) where you mention >analogical a gwath and a historical variant a chwath (sw > > chw) for "and a shadow," I thought that we might find >-chw- rather than -thw- Sw- > chw- is clearly the initial development and as you have pointed out some time ago the mutation as r/l > a rh/lh shows initial development as well rather than medial. |
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Hello, I've been away for a while and I have a number of translation requests =)
There's no hurry for them though, and I would like them all in the Sindarin please =) Thank you in advance! =) _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Summer air reminds me of all the feelings of your love and what it was like when we were together" "Only when we are no longer afraid do we begin to live" "Everybody wants to live on top of a mountain but all the fun occurs while climbing it" "We do not choose how we die or when. We can only choose how to live" "Friendship is a priceless gift That cannot be bought or sold But its value is far greater Than a mountain made of gold" |
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It is not about where you go in life, it is about who is by your side that makes it all worthwhile.
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Should you require them in Quenya I'd give them a go but I am afraid that Sindarin vocabulary and grammar is just too patchy to give good results with these.
But maybe there will be more adventurous sould around who can help you:) |
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If Sindarin is too hard then Quenya would be more than fine =) x
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OK, here are the sentences in Quenya, with their literal meaning also given. The poem is trickier, I shall ponder it for some more time...
"Summer air reminds me of all the feelings of your love and what it was like when we were together" Laireva vilya enyale illi felmer melmetyo ar manen anes quie anelme uo. "Summer air recalls all feelings of your love and how it was when we were together" "Only when we are no longer afraid do we begin to live" Yestalme cuivien er quie telyalme sorien. "We begin to live only when we stop being afraid." "Everybody wants to live on top of a mountain but all the fun occurs while climbing it" Illi merir mare orotingasse mal ilye alassi tulir lyenna quie ambalelyal. "All want to live on a mountain-top but all joys come to you when you go upwards". "We do not choose how we die or when. We can only choose how to live" Lá namilme manen hya masse firuvalme. Lertalme name er manen *vehtalme. "We do not judge/decide how or when we will die. We can only judge/decide how we live." *vehta-: hypothetical/coined verb "to live" from the attested root WE3- "live, be active" (only the noun _vehte_ "life" is attested). |
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So here is an attempt at the poem as well:
Nilme ná anna úmancima úantima ar úcámina Mal é nilme arimelda oronti maltáve pella "Friendship is a gift untradeable, ungiveable and ungettable But indeed friendship is dearer beyond mountains of gold |
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Atwe, thank you so, so much, I wish I could offer you more than my deepest thanks =D You've no idea how grateful I am, thank you
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It is not about where you go in life, it is about who is by your side that makes it all worthwhile.
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Atwe, thanks for stepping up and doing the translations; I've been reluctant since I don't yet have PE17 and therefore my attempts would be outdated. I greatly appreciate it!
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Requests for long translations, such as songs or poems, might not be done.
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I'm not sure at all; I can't think of any known examples for this cluster.

If not - isn't tehre ANY plans to complete Tolkiens languages some day, or is that kinda "taboo" touching his baby?










