Notion Club, Nights 62-66

**Lord of the Rings** · 27/Oct/2012, 09:20 PM

Sorry for the lateness here - I've had a fairly busy day, and have only just had time to really turn to the Notion Clubnow.
But we're in Part Two! Whoo! The frame has been set in Part One, and now we really start to move towards Nūmenōr (as its usually spelled here). We also move away from Ramer, with his Hungarian and far away planets, to Lowdham with his Germanic and far away times.
The start of Night 65 is a late addition to the text, and a bit of a strange one: this is the conversation about pantsand language change. Tolkien seems to have added it in order to develop and clarify his concept of one's 'native language' a bit more, to set the stage more fully for Lowdhams's linguistic 'visions'. The discussion is interesting in its own right as an elaboration of the 'native language' idea, and how Tolkien thought it fit into language change. It's also kind of interesting in light of modern linguistic 'debates' about describing language versus judging it - except for the 'native language' aspect, I think Tolkien's (or at least Lowdham's) version is more or less what any modern linguistic would say. All very interesting, but also pretty self-explanatory in the text, I think.
After language, Night 64 turns to story and the 'daimonic force that the great myths and legends have'. Again, setting the stage for future events that we'll read about next week. There are some lovely turns of phrase in this section, and potentially a fair bit to talk about if we want to get into legend/myth/history (and subcreation, truth, etc.) at all.
And then there's Night 66. Here we really start to dig into the Nūmenōr matter (and in typical Tolkienian fashion, we're coming at the myth through language). We get musings on naming, language invention, the ancient languages of Nūmenōr, and archaic Anglo-Saxon - the arrangement of this Night struck me as relatively complex, and even at the end the cat hasn't really come out of the bag. Tolkien's starting to adopt something of a mystery novel mode: dropping hints and pieces of evidence, alluding to possible connections (as with the Lombards, and Sheaf), and working his way up to the 'reveal'.
I've got a few other specific comments, but since they're mostly about pretty specific linguistic issues I'll save them for another post.

Edited by: Lord of the Rings

**Lord of the Rings** · 28/Oct/2012, 01:47 AM

There's a lot of Old English in Night 66, and Tolkien includes a lot of dialectal and archaic forms. It's interesting (at least to me, anyway) to think about why.
Lowdham gives basically three 'types' of Old English that have 'come through' to him. The first group is 'classical' Old English, and there really isn't much to say about them. Christopher Tolkien glosses all these words, and notes various interesting etymological facts(such asMidswépenbeing clearly modelled on Gothic midjasweipains, the word for the great deluge of Noah in the Gothic bible).
Then there's a set of what can probably be safely called archaic Mercian words. Both hebaensuiland frumaeldiare in this group, as is the poem Monath módaes lust mith meriflóda . . .The sound and the spelling of these words is closely modelled a couple of specific older Old English texts, the Corpus and ÉpinalGlossaries. These are lists of Latin words with their Old English translations. The word hebaensuilshows an archaic (and even then rare) spelling uifor the 'u-umlaut' sound, which is usually written y. Both words show the early spelling of æas two letters, ae. There are plenty of linguistic features here that are archaic and point to Mercian dialect.
The oldest set of words are the single phrase westra lage wegas rehtas, wraikwas nu isti'a straight way lay westward, now it is bent' andthe untranslated nameWihawinia. The phrase in is an extremelyarchaic form of Germanic - if this text were a genuine early Germanic sentence, 'the philologists would be very interested', as Lowdham says. The linguistic age is clearly shown in the final vowels of the verbs lage'lay' and isti'is', which are ancient Indo-European verbal endings that were lost in all Germanic dialects by the time they were written down. They may have already been lost by Proto-Germanic (though apparently Tolkien didn't think so).
The word Wihawiniain intriguing, mostly because it's not clear what it's supposed to mean. J.R.R. Tolkien doesn't translate it in the text, and Christopher Tolkien declines to offer an interpretation. So we have a nice little riddle to play with! Based on Germanic patterns, the word is almost certainly divided Wiha-winia.
Wihacould be interpreted a few ways, all of which require a long i: Wīha-. The two options I think are most likely are either Germanic *wīh-, *wig-'fight' or else *wīha-'holy'. Both options require Wihawiniato be very archaic (which Lowdham says it is). In 'fight', the original variation between hand gwas settled entirely in favour of gin Old English; if Wihawiniais from this root, the hwould have to pre-date this spread of the gforms. For wīha-, the biggest issue is meaning, since in Old English this word lost its old positive connotations with Christianization, and came to be used for pagan idols and shrines.
(A further option is a connection with Gothicweihs'village', Proto-Germanic*wīhaz, ultimately (though indirectly) related to the-wick,-wichending in a lot of English place names (Norwich, Warwick, etc.). Aside from being a little prosaic, it's problematic that all of Germanic aside from Gothic lost the native word in favour of the similar (and etymologically related)vīcus, with acfor Germanich (χ).)
The second part, winia, is not much clearer. Although it's kind of similar, it probably doesn'thave any connection to winë'friend' (as in Ælfwinë). Winiacould potentially be the old genitive plural of 'friend', meaning 'of friends', but an isolated word like this should be in the nominative case, not the genitive. Any other connection to 'friend' (such as assuming a rebuilding as a ja-stem) seem even more tenuous.
Instead, I think the most likely option is that it's the same word as Gothic winja'meadow, pasture'. Its single occurrence in Gothic is metaphorical for heaven, John 10:9, and it's etymologically probably from a root meaning 'joy, wish, pleasure' (related to Old English wynn). These senses seem to make it a good match with the first element being*wīha-'holy'. This would mean basically 'blessed meadow' or 'holy joyous (flat)land'. I'm not sure what precisely this would refer to though. My best guess would be the plain of Aman. It would be nice if there were an Elvish or Adunaic name of equatable meaning (though the lack of such an equivalent term shouldn't rule this interpretation out:Nówendalandrefers to Nūmenōr through the very different sense 'land of mariners').
The other interpretation, 'fight', gives us the meaning 'war meadow' or '(joyful??) (flat)land of strife'. It's a pretty good match for Sindarin Dagorlad, but it's hard to see what that has to do with anything. I can't think of any suitable 'battle plains' that Germanic mariners might have heard about from the Nūmenōreans, except maybe for echoes of the Nirnaith. The last option, 'village meadow', works well enough in meaning, but hardly seems to fit the context.
Anyway, Wihawiniais definitely a difficult word, and I doubt we'll ever be sure of its meaning.
But these details aside, I find it striking that Tolkien includes such obviously and explicitly archaic material in Lowdham's 'visions'. The 'classical' Old English makes sense with the connection to Ælfwine, who is a direct link between the Old English and the Nūmenōr legend. Quenya and Adunaic obviously make sense too. But this archaic Germanic seems to be playing into Tolkien's idea (connected to King Sheave, the opening of Béowulf, and the Langobards) that the Germanic peoples had some ancient connection with the Nūmenōreans directly, long before Ælfwine's day. A phrase likewestra lage wegas rehtas, wraikwas nu istiseems to make sense only in that sort of context, and an ancient name for Valinor (if that's what Wihawiniais) could also be explained that way.
The old Mercian forms, partway between this archaic Germanic and Ælfwine's own later Old English, must come in with the idea that the Sheave traditions were best preserved in Mercia - this Mercian element starts to make more sense (I think) when we see Tréowine's performance in the Anglo-Saxon scene in Night 69.
On a different note, anyone have any ideas about Penian? It looks like it should have the Welsh element penin it, but that's about as far as I got there.

Edited by: Lord of the Rings

**Dorwiniondil** · 28/Oct/2012, 10:03 AM

A digression from matters linguistic: there is the significance of the Radcliffe Camera. For those who are unfamiliar with Oxford, there are plenty of pictures of this rather strikingbuilding on the Web, e.g. here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radcliffe_Camera

We've already come across the Radcliffe at the end of Night 61, when Ramer's vision of the beauties of Tekel-Mirim are degraded by what turns out to be a speeded-up time-lapse view of the Thames Valley, ending at the Radcliffe. On Night 63 it's now Lowdham who appears to find something ominous about it. It appears eventually that it may be reflected in another (time? dimension??) by an identical building ... those who have read Lewis's fragment The Dark Tower, in which the evil inhabitants of another dimension are attempting to connect with our world by (among other things) erecting a replica of Cambridge University Library (here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrid...ersity_Library)

The Radcliffe, or its otherworld /othertime double , has an obvious connection with the maleficient being who turns out to be named Zigur ... which of course suggests "ziggurat" ...

See where free association gets you!

**Lord of the Rings** · 28/Oct/2012, 10:32 AM

It's probably also obligatory to point out that one of the grammatical forms of Zigūrin Lowdham's report on Adunaic, the dual, is zigūrā̆t'two wizards'.
And while we're on free association, I'm surprised more hasn't been made of the line 'the two towers of All Souls' stuck up like dim horns against the stars':http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/1_all_souls_college_oxford_2012.jpg

A digression from matters linguistic
Oh no! A digression within a digression - where will it end

**Dorwiniondil** · 28/Oct/2012, 02:04 PM

Penian: I believe there are standing stones in the Preseli hills called "Penian stones", which would fit the location. There are a fair few megalithic bits in the area, most famously Pentre Ifan (here: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2670812)

On the other hand, could it be a misreading for Penlan?

**Lord of the Rings** · 29/Oct/2012, 10:25 AM

'Penlan' would seem to make a lot of sense. A quick search on Google maps turns up several Penlan farms and whatnot in Pembrokeshire (though the most prominent Penlan seems to be a suburb of Swansea - though maybe it started out as an independent community?). I wonder if there is any particular reason Tolkien might have focused on either Penlan or Penian?

The general setting in Pembrokeshire, on the coast of the Bristol Channel or the Celtic Sea, makes a lot of sense. If I remember right, that's the area usually associated with the sunken land of Lyonesse, one of the Celtic analogues of Atlantis.
I'll try and take a look at 'A Question of Time' again this week sometime. As I recall, Verlyn Flieger discusses all this pretty well there.

**Dorwiniondil** · 29/Oct/2012, 12:35 PM

I wonder if there is any particular reason Tolkien might have focused on either Penlan or Penian?
So do I, especially since we shall not be spending any more time in Pembrokeshire - a lot of action around Porlock, which however is on the coast of Somerset, on the Bristol Channel; a fair step from Pembrokeshire which in any case is a bit far north to be classed as the Bristol Channel - more the Irish Sea, especially in the north, where the Penian Stones, and several Penlans are.

Lyonesse is usually associated with Cornwall, especially the Scilly Isles. Pembrokeshire however is historical Dyfed (Demetia), hence the home territory of Pwyll in the Mabinogion.

And at a tangent, Pembrokeshire (Sir Benfro / Sir Bemro) is a very attractive area, with its own distinctive culture (the Pembrokeshire dialect is a source of constant amusement to other Welsh speakers), and its historic split between English and Welsh (the dividing line - the "landsker"- goes roughly north-west to south-east). It also has some very pleasant resorts (Tenby, Saundersfoot, etc.) and a couple of off-shore islands, Skomer and Skokholm, excellent for birdwatching and seal viewing. And of course total toponymical confusion!

**Troelsfo** · 04/Nov/2012, 10:28 AM

Some various notes, comments and questions . . . .

Night 62
I agree with Dorwiniondil about the significance of the Camera — can there be much doubt that this is a reference to the temple that Zigūr had built to the worship of himself and his master?

Night 64
Though nothing happens that really furthers the story, we nonetheless stay in the general topical area with Guildford's paper ‘on Jutland in antiquity’.

Night 65
I was intrigued by Jeremy's discussion of origins (starting apparently on the missing leaf)

Sometimes I have a queer feeling that, if one could go back, one would find not myth dissolving into history, but rather the reverse: real history becoming more mythical - more shapely, simple, discernibly significant, even seen at close quarters. More poetical, and less prosaic, if you like.

‘In any case, these ancient accounts, legends, myths, about the far Past, about the origins of kings, laws, and the fundamental crafts, are not all made of the same ingredients. They're not wholly inventions. And even what is invented is different from mere fiction; it has more roots.’

This touches on something that I have been looking into elsewhere as well. In an essay about the connections between Tolkien's Middle-earth and his essay ‘On Fairy-stories’ Verlyn Flieger says

Here is the recognition to which he refers in the first quote, recognition not just that “things are so in the world,” but also that there is a reality or truth that underlies that fact. And if the writer, the sub-creator, is an honest craftsman - and Tolkien certainly was - it will sometimes be “hard” recognition, for there are some underlying realities or truths that do not always bring joy. And if the secondary world is to reflect the primary one, it must acknowledge that.
Green Suns and Faërie, ‘J.R.R. Tolkien's World and the Fairy-story Essay’, p.7

I think Flieger here touches on something essential that Tolkien also showcases in The Lord of the Rings. When he has Celeborn tell Boromir not to “despise the lore that has come down from distant years; for oft it may chance that old wives keep in memory word of things that once were needful for the wise to know.” As this is about the Ents, Celeborn is of course proven right — the old wives' tale about the Ents was truly needful for the wise to know as Saruman discovered. The same pattern is repeated with the athelas in the Houses of Healing in Minas Tirith, where the old wife, Ioreth, remembers lore that “was once needful for the wise to know.” I think Jeremy's statements connect very well with this theme, which has Tolkien claim that the truth of fairy-tales, legend and myth is not just the eucatastrophe as he implies in ‘On Fairy-stories’ but also far more direct, more historical. This of course also touches on the learned opinions that Shippey and Drout give on Tolkien's famous Beowulf essay in their contributions in the Scholars' Forum, and if you will suffer a bit of self-indulgence, it was also one of the points in my paper at ‘The Return of the Ring’ in which I argued that Tolkien used The Lord of the Rings not just to show how a good fairy-story should be constructed according to his model, but also to show, internally in the story and upon his own characters the effects of fairy-stories and myth.

The inclusion of references to Arthurian matters are of course extra interesting in these months as we eagerly await the publication of The Fall of Arthur next May — “There was a man called Arthur at the centre of the cycle” indeed!

Night 66
I have a question to the old Germanic / Old English / Mercian / whateverish of this night:
LotR has already mentioned the line “westra lage wegas rehtas, wraikwas nu isti.” which comes through in different versions, including also “westweg wæs rihtweg, wóh is núþa” and in The Lost Road “Westra lage wegas rehtas, nu istisa wraithas” (The Lost Road and Other Writings, p.43). This is clearly connected also to Lowdham's youthful “first attempt at recording Anglo-Saxon wōh.”
In all these cases, the word wraikwas, wóh, wraithas is translated by ‘bent’ (or, in the case of the youthful efforts, ‘crooked’), but it seems to me that these words are related — possibly also to wriðan, ‘writhe,’ and to Tolkien's use of ‘wraith’ as also discussed by Tom Shippey e.g. in ‘Orcs, Wraiths, Wights: Tolkien's Images of Evil’ (Roots and Branches, p.253-4). On the other hand, I might be merely grasping at minute incidental similarities in phonology, and so I would appreciate it if these ideas could be dismissed, or possibly even to some extent confirmed

Overall these nights strike me quite forcefully in terms of Lowdham's descriptions of his dreams as not having any images, only words are ‘coming through’ to him. What little I remember of my own dreams is always words: my own voice (usually — though not the voice that others hear, nor the voice that I hear myself when I speak, but rather the voice of my thoughts) narrating the dream. This is not to say that there are no images — I would be surprised if there was not (and I do remember one or two vividly visual dreams / nightmares that I had as a child), but I do not recall the images, only the narrating voice. This is something that I had not realised, or had not thought about previously. I have said before that I don't get any vivid pictures in my mind when I read, and now I do wonder if there is a connection. Well, probably only personally interesting, but this does make me connect more strongly to the text here.

Thread: Notion Club, Nights 62-66

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